I'm gonna call it a night, but expect some of the first issue breakout threads tomorrow (we'll link to them from this thread) and try to leave me with a reasonable number of posts to catch up on in the morning ok?

On the surface that might be true. But the real truth is that that 'younger audience' has the attention span of a brain damaged goldfish where as the types of people who inhabit null now (and who can mentally and emotionally endure the structure grind environment of the current sov system) will be able to deal with situation of the new system in the longer run..

They're.....ya know......something something soon something...

[Agree with all save one part - people are forgetting the drawbacks of the link mods and that the targets are (essentially) broadcast. .

Now lets just use 600 total alts and make CFC respond in every single one of their systems at the same time
Oh and only put cynos on 5 of them.

But there is no furnace in this set-up, there are no Armageddon battles, just a wet depressing fart-sound as the air goes out. Its just all something of an anticlimax.

Ok, one point that seems to be being avoided or missed, If as some fear, goons send a swarm across new eden capturing everything as content for their players. Yes they can be disruptive, and yes, there will be lots of fights, and yes, they can capture lots of systems..

What then?

Are they going to sit there bored out of their brains?

No they will go home, back to their core, and then they can be taken back.

Ha ha ha. I can just imagine the Verite Map-over-time:, it gets to the month of the change, flashes up Fozzie Sucks in big letters across the map, before going black . Your not an alt of one of us are you?

If they get their way with not allowing interdiction nullified ships use the module then yep, this.

A few side thoughts

The scorpion and the frog parable is nice . . . but do you recall the fate of both of them?

A few years ago when FW came out people called it a warmup for getting into null, null lite. Looks like they were wrong and null was FW lite and just warming up to now.

A friend in the game sent me an answer to my question of why do people do sov in null. He is a director in a fair sized null organization.

I will not name him or her since I failed to ask permission but this is what I got, summarized



I think that did a decent job of summing it up. Do you have anything to add/debate?

m

Who's planning to capture anything? Seriously, we're a bunch of retardly masochistic idiots who'll beat our heads against a wall for months on the promise of 'eventually, it'll feel good when we stop!' and 'this hurts everyone else more'. We're not going to do this to take space. We're going to do this to screw other people.

We probably won't even give much of a damn if it leaves all of Null a smoking crater. Before this actually goes live, all of our personal assets will be in safe lowsec or NPC null stations just like S2N's pastebin shows them planning. Our moon operations will still take just as much effort for people to hurt - and we'll still be able to respond w/fleets just like we do now - all with the added benefit of doing all our ratting in other peoples' space while we take it away from them just to watch it burn.

Really, what's the downside to this for us? We don't have sov bills?

This isn't going to do what CCP wants. It's not going to drive fights, it's going to produce a whole lot of griefing. And it's not going to stop until we get tired of it - and if you think we'll get tired of it any time soon, MiniLuv's been active how many years? Goons have been scamming people for how many years?

As the scorpion said to the frog: it's our nature.

Don't let us do this.

So far as I've seen, the CSM is supportive of the proposed system. I haven't seen a member speak ill of it.

This seems like a pretty reasonable way to make nullsec more attractive to hold as an alliance.

-Nerf mining in nullsec. If removing local is already going to be a thing, this is pretty much already done. Maybe just remove the super asteroids that were put into place recently. This has the net effect of buffing mining in highsec enormously. Move rare ores from nullsec to highsec (ABC ores)
-Implement ring mining as the primary source of moon materials, and this would be almost exclusive to nullsec
-Make the moongoo ore refinable. This lets alliances tax the ring mining as an income source.
-(Optional) give wormholes some sort of advantage for the actual production of T3 ships, beyond just having the resources readily available. Maybe a POS mode with a faster build time which is only anchorable in wormhole space?


Since the industry expansion, nullsec has been particularly attractive for T2 production. You can build on that by letting line members mine the moon material required to drive this production. The alliance-level income is replaced by production research and refining tax in upgraded amarr caldari and minmatar stations.

Highsec mining gets buffed, because there is reduced supply of minerals from nullsec and increase demand for compressed ore for export to nullsec (for t1 hulls) Highsec becomes even more attractive for T1 production because of the ease of logistics moving massive quantities or minerals. The increase in profits from asteroid mining in nullsec would encourage this.

Nullsec becomes the go-to for all T2 production in the game. Alliances occupy sov to get the stations and ring-mining access in order to build T2 ships, which the rest of the game requires. Nullsec already has a built-in advantage for T2 production due to the station bonuses and access to moons. The difference here would be that the gathering of moon materials would be up to the ring miners and not alliance level logistics people.

Wormholes stay the same - the primary source of materials for T3 ships.


All you would need is new mining anomalies in nullsec which have moon material belts - at least for the start. The mining barge f1 mechanic for ring mining could be replaced later with something more interesting, but for now it would give nullsec a tangible economic reason for occupancy.

Usage of the stations to refine and build ships would also contribute to the industry index and increase the security of your space. Of course, the activity of ring mining would also increase this.

tl;dr - Highsec = T1 production, Nullsec = T2 production, Wormholes = T3 production.

After reading Fozzie's comments on EVE Down Under, it's become clear to me that he's an absolute ****** who shouldn't be anywhere near game design.

He wants supers to be some kind of force multiplier giving some type of bonuses, instead of damage ships.
He wants delayed local in nullsec.
He wants to remove fleet warp.
He wants to nerf combat probing.
And he thinks nullsec has enough incentives as it is.

I'm starting to get seriously pissed off at CCP. Way to completely flip the bird to some of your most loyal subscribers.

... most of my contacts want to own a system or two to say that they have done it, though I have done that, but in the main to have small fun fleet fights.

Just a view on the 'Freeport' mechanic. If a system or constellation is under attack and there is only one station in that area it would be reasonable to assume that both the attackers and defenders will stage out of that freeport station....

The concern people have is that the additional ball-ache factor in sov just isn't going to be worth it, and large groups might just pick up their sov and sit in NPC nullsec and hold the moons